Wednesday, 28 October 2015

What Is A God?


I've decided to update this post on 21st Feb 2017. I'm doing this because of a recent exchange I had on Twitter. My interlocutor's insistence on straw-manning my very simple question of "What is a god?" to "What is God?" is decidedly dishonest. He of course gleefully answered his version of my question, and is claiming it as a valid answer. It clearly isn't is it? I mean, if you ask me what a cat is, and I describe the character of Cat from Red Dwarf to you, my answer would be of no relevance whatsoever... I simply would not be answering your question at all! For starters, no feline has ever consistently walked on two legs or spoken English!

When you ask someone to define what a god is, and they answer honestly, you often get a list of things that a god must be, or some idea of how their god exemplifies their idea of what a god is, which isn't actually an answer to the original question, but if they explain that this is all they know, I'm OK with it.

Often they reference things like being humanoid, able to create the universe, being all-good, all-knowing and all that stuff. So, let's unpick that shall we? If a god must be all these things then we should be able to pin down exactly what a god is. Surely if a god doesn't fit the bill it can't be a god, right?

So let's take a look at the common features attributed to gods:

Anthropomorphic (human-like)


There are many gods and goddesses who aren't like us, for instance Kamadhenu of Hindu culture, who whilst having the face of a human woman and often her breasts, is a cow goddess. Ninsun, the Mesapotamian mother of the famous hero-god Gilgamesh, was also a cow.

Anansi is another example of a non-arthropomorphic god. Anansi is an African spider-god, a trickster.

Huntin is an African god of trees, and himself a tree. So not all gods are humanoid.

Creative


Not all gods, or goddesses, are able to create things... especially not universes. After all, if all the creative gods did create the universe they either did so in concert, or the whole idea is total nonsense.

An example of a non-creative god is Heitsi-Eibib, an African god of evolution. Though he himself didn't create any living beings, he reputedly convinced animals to take up more suitable habitats than the ones they previously had. For instance he made the fish leave the desert for the sea, which he deemed a more appropriate place for them to live. Seems obvious when you think about it.

So no, not all gods need to be creative.

Eternal/Invulnerable


Apedemak, a Sudanese war god, came late to the Egyptian pantheon and was gone soon after. How many gods can you name? The ones you can't are probably already dead... if you believe what Terry Pratchett said about them.

Balin, an Indian hero god actually got killed in a fight with his half-brother Sugriva.

So not all gods are eternal, or it would seem invulnerable.

Ethereal/Spirit-like


Most gods and goddesses of the ancient world appeared, or could appear, physically to humans at one point or another. Yahweh's very first real appearance was walking through the Garden of Eden looking for Adam.

Khuzwane is evidenced by the marks he left during his presence on Earth, the African god who purportedly made humans from clay (where have we heard that before?) left muddy footprints everywhere he went (which are apparently still visible today) and even uses Lake Fundudzi as a private pool from time to time.

So some gods are very physical indeed.

Judgemental


There are thousands of gods and goddesses who are seemingly non-judgemental, nor are they involved in any afterlife punishments, or trials of any sort. Take the Roman goddess named Cuba who appears to only be concerned with singing lullabies to children to get them off to sleep.

So not all gods judge our actions

Global/Universal


Um... this may seem fairly obvious to anyone who has spent any time reading about gods, but it appears that many cultures have some very specific gods who look after some very specialist and rather odd things. Anarkusuga, for instance, is a Native American/Inuit goddess who looks after the Arctic ice and its contents.

Mikula, the Slavic god, is in charge of heroics. Yup... just being heroic.

So, not all gods have a universal influence after all.

All-knowing, All-powerful, Ever-present


So far I've referenced a number of gods and goddesses, none of whom appear to be particularly all-knowing, all-powerful, or ever-present... except in their own fields of speciality perhaps. I guess tree spirits are always present in all trees, Arctic frost goddesses are to be found everywhere in the Arctic ice etc. etc.

By contrast, Buga is the supreme god of everything in the Slavic pantheon. Somewhat like the god of the Abrahamic cultures, but with the added advantage of having grown out of a more shamanic and nature-loving religion.

So not all gods are all things to all people.

All-loving


It stands to reason that a god exists which isn't all good. Yama, the Indian death lord, loves nothing more than sending your souls to Hell. Tezcatlipoca, the Aztec god of night and death, actually leads people into doing evil things, despite outwardly being handsome and friendly (at first.)

So not all gods are truly omnibenevolent. Some are downright evil.

Please check out my other musings on this subject at: http://ublasphemist.blogspot.co.uk/2015/05/the-impossible-god.html

Dealing with these "omnis", with regards the Christian version of "God", is unavoidable in any honest discourse on the subject. I would argue that my simple analysis in the above blog item destroys the main thrust of their arguments, but there is another point to be made.

Logic dictates that any entity able to be omnipresent must be present in all times, at all locations, future and past and present. So, he would in effect be at the farthest reaches of our expanding universe as well as watching you masturbate.

So, if this god were to watch as a hypothetical girl like Lucy (who is walking the mile home from her school after hockey practice, along the same route she always follows) gets mugged and hits her head hard enough for her to be placed in a persistent vegetative state? How does that not seem a bit evil to you? What lesson could this God possibly be trying to teach a girl who now has absolutely no way to interact with the world, her loved ones, or friends? What possible benefit could there be to her to make her entirely dependent on others for survival? If your answer is that she has been used as a pawn to teach someone else something you've just trodden on the bear-trap of telling me that your god is playing a game with us... and he cannot possibly be benevolent.This incident has robbed Lucy of any chance she has of leading the life on her own terms, nor "find Salvation" if she wasn't already a believer... think about it... isn't leading someone away from Yahweh a sin?

If this event could be foreseen, but not prevented, because it was the free will of Lucy's attacker to injure her, in order to take her purse and smart-phone, this god isn't all-powerful.

There are several logical inconsistencies wherever you look. Your god simply cannot be all-knowing, all-powerful, all-loving and ever-present.

Another point to consider is this, dear Christians:

If the Judeo-Christian god, Yahweh, was the only god, why does he even have a name? Why does the term Israel itself not point you in the direction that the original god of the Jews was El? Is-ra-EL. If the people were exclusively Yahweh worshippers their name would have been Is-ra-YAHU... but it isn't is it?

How's about you have a nice cup of tea and think about that for a while... or you can add a plate of biscuits to that and do some research of your own into how Yahweh went from being a Canaanite storm god to being the principle god of the Jews around 720BCE.



In Summary


If you're talking to Christians and ask them the question "What is a god?" they nearly always ignore the question altogether. Of the few who do answer, most just point you to a Bible passage, or come up with some deepity about their god Yahweh. Fewer still actually try to answer honestly.

I'm not sure if they are deliberately failing to engage with the question because it causes a great deal of cognitive dissonance, i.e. they're being intentionally dishonest, or they just don't understand the question. Christians get repeatedly told that Yahweh is the only god, despite their Bible referencing at least a dozen other gods, and Yahweh stating himself that we should put no other gods before him in that list of ten things he's supposed to have said.


What we've seen here is that the traditional view of what a god is according to the Abrahamics does not apply to all gods. So the question remains:


What IS a god?




Check out the source for these god ideas: http://www.godchecker.com
(this post might be updated as more suggestions about what a god is are offered to me)


6 comments:

  1. I wish you had directed me to your blog during our Twitter exchange. Thoughtful post. It also gives me a better understanding of your Twitter handle. @panrh_ian

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  2. Atheists like you utterly and unreasonably ignore the possibility that all of the gods that humanity has created are merely attempts to substitute for The One True God, Who made and sustains them and everything else (using parts of His Nature which we like and discarding those we don't). We all know in our hearts that we do this, one way or another, but suppress this knowledge. The leading false gods in the developed world today are Science (insofar as it claims to be the sole source of knowledge) and one's self as the ultimate judge of morality (self-deification).

    The Bible alone explains why people do this. You know your Creator exists but suppress this knowledge because you were born with a rebellious nature. But God offers all a chance to give up their foolish & futile rebellion and become perfectly-loved children of God. But those who refuse to accept His offer until their last breath justly merit His Judgment. For, you use the breath which He gives you to oppose Him.

    The Bible giving numerous names/titles to God =/= multiple gods. We can show how the Bible's message is internally-consistent. The problem is your dogmatic certainty that it isn't! I refuse to get into prolonged debates with atheists like you because you're the one who is completely close-minded. I know because I was once on your side.

    If you ever can get yourself to start questioning your own assumptions and actually consider our point-of-view I will welcome discussion. The problem with most debates is that the goal is to tear-down the other side's position, not to learn from it. I could tear your arguments to shreds endlessly. But what would be the point? It would help me understand your perspective. But, sadly, you clearly have no interest in trying to understand mine. If that ever changes, let me know.

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  3. "Atheists like you utterly and unreasonably ignore the possibility that all of the gods that humanity has created are merely attempts to substitute for The One True God"

    - And you ignore the more likely event that ALL gods are made up. Also, I'm not an atheist... I'm an Agnostic.

    - I've tackled this in the post. Each of the different gods have characteristics which aren't in the Judeo-Christian model of YHWH. If they were attempts to interpret a single God in their own way, at the very least the characteristics of their god would be similar, if not exactly comparable to, your version of a god.

    - Theologians (Christian ones) through the ages have recognized that the Judaism of the Bible moves from henotheism through to an early form of monotheism. The phrase "the LORD" is often inserted to mask another name so that it maintains the uniform narrative the Jews wished to protect.

    - These are ALL the gods mentioned in the OT:

    Adrammelech
    Amon
    Anamelech
    Anat
    Asherah
    Ashimah
    Ashteroth
    Azazel
    Ba'al
    Baal Peor
    Beelzebub
    Bel
    Beresh't
    Chemosh
    Dagon
    EL
    Slim
    Elohim
    EL-Shaddai
    Malkam
    Molech
    Mot
    Nabu
    Nergal
    Nibhaz
    Nisroch
    Resheph
    Rimmon
    Shachor
    Shamash
    Shaydim
    Succoth-Benoth
    Tammuz
    Tartak
    YHWH/YHVH

    - These are NOT all names of one god. They are different characters with different roles, scripted lines and most come to a sticky end, or leave the story by force. The fact that some of these are called "gods" (the word false never applies to any of these) by your god, the last one alphabetically, is enough evidence that they CANNOT be just names of ONE god! Logic dictates that these are all different gods, in the same way that the characters in The Merchant of Venice aren't all just different aspects of Shylock!

    - Clearly, to reiterate my earlier point, the people of Israel weren't YHWH worshipers. Their name means "People of EL"!

    - Read the post again.

    "We all know in our hearts that we do this, one way or another, but suppress this knowledge."

    - A hugely arrogant statement, not least because you insist on pushing your views onto us, when you A: Don't know our minds and couldn't possibly hope to & B: Have no understanding of how knowledge follows on from the presentation of evidence.

    - How about this? I know that EVERYBODY, including YOU knows that Jeff the purple, fairy-eating snake god exists, but you are suppressing this knowledge! If you think that's ridiculous you will finally understand why I think your position is laughable.

    "The leading false gods in the developed world today are Science (insofar as it claims to be the sole source of knowledge) and one's self as the ultimate judge of morality (self-deification)."

    - Word salad. Science isn't a religion, or a god, it is a process. You do science every day. When you learnt to tie your shoelaces (presuming you have by now) you found a way that worked efficiently using your hands. It may have been different to the way you were shown. You may know a few ways to tie them. But the process you used to learn was a scientific one. Same with everything you learnt to do.

    - I find the idea that someone makes a claim that science is a false god, using a COMPUTER which runs on ELECTRICITY made by a POWER STATION that either uses fossil fuel MINING, natural gas DRILLING, or NUCLEAR power highly amusing.

    "The Bible alone explains why people do this."

    - Why we do what? Suppress knowledge of a god, or apply one's morality to judgments we make.
    Both have been written about extensively by authors, researchers, scientists and teachers of ALL stripes, religions and experience. The Bible is as useful a reference source as the 1984 Eagle Annual (which I still have my copy of, if you want to borrow it.)

    - I couldn't care less what the Bibble, Qurain't or Book of Morons say. I've read them all and they're complete bullshit from start to finish.

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    1. Again, you consider the Bible BS because you falsely assume that its God can't exist. At the same time, you know that God does exist in your mind, but you are desperate to deny this because you don't want to deal with Him. I know this because I was the same for my first 22 years. But once a person becomes open to the possibility that The Creator God does exist he or she will quickly realize that He must exist. And since He does, the Bible becomes credible, though it must be properly interpreted.

      The True God does have many names in the Bible, but the Bible also lists many who were regarded as gods but are clearly rebuked as non-existent idols. But the main problem with how you frame the question is that you think we define what a god is.

      But this is to make God in our image. Rather, we must recognize that God made us in His image. But most reject Him for idols. Today's leading idols are intellectual (Science as God, the only source of knowledge) and the self (Narcissism: That my success or comfort are my priority). Both are dead-ends, however.

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  4. "But God offers..."

    - How can YOU, a mere MORTAL deign to suggest that you could EVER know the mind of a GOD?

    - On what authority do you claim this?

    - On whose authority can you tell anyone what a god does, or does not do?

    - What a pompous and arrogant statement that is. It's also the logical fallacy of "begging the question". Before you go making any statements regarding a god, you MUST be clear, with evidence to back it up, on WHAT a god is!

    - Without that FIRST step you really cannot go forward with your claims without exposing yourself as a charlatan.

    "The Bible giving numerous names/titles to God =/= multiple gods. We can show how the Bible's message is internally-consistent. The problem is your dogmatic certainty that it isn't!"

    - YHWH is given a few names in the Bibble. My post isn't about that. It speaks of the different natures and characteristics of gods worshipped by different cultures. Cultures which, in many cases, weren't know to the authors of the OT in the 5th century BCE.

    - The Bible isn't internally consistent. For one thing the god of the OT is nothing like the god of the NT, and in fact, the book begins with two incompatible creation mythologies. There are Christian books on the inconsistencies in the Bible. The King James Bible has over 14,800 changes from the oldest known Bible, the Codex Sinaiticus. And with each translation you get more errors and reinterpretations of various stories.

    - The Books of Moses, for instance are well-known to have not been written by Moses... but by unknown authors (plural) over two centuries in the later part of the 1st millennium BCE.

    - The Bible says the Earth is flat, with a dome over it in which the Sun and Moon magically pass overhead... yet we know for a fact, and actually when the Bible was first written we knew, that the Earth is round. THAT right there is reason enough to throw the Bible in the bin.

    - Not to mention allowing slavery and beatings.

    "If you ever can get yourself to start questioning your own assumptions and actually consider our point-of-view"

    - I question these things regularly. And, I ask theists for their versions of things like... um... gods!

    - I was an atheistic pagan because of the Bible, and am an Agnostic now because of having tried to reason my way back into the religion.

    "The problem with most debates is that the goal is to tear-down the other side's position, not to learn from it."

    - I'm an epistemologist. My goal is to learn. However, the right to my being careful to listen to rational/reasonable people is reserved. Do you sit with drunk, or drug-addled conspiracy theorists in order to learn more about their alcohol haze-fuelled delusions? No. Do you read ANY atheists' books? Do you REALLY read them, and consider the points they make? I would say no, given how you've reacted to this post.

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  5. "I could tear your arguments to shreds endlessly."

    - Firstly, you haven't addressed my argument. You have simply asserted stuff as truth, without evidential support.

    - Secondly, I haven't seen anything in what you've said yet which makes me think you have understood your own arguments. You claim to KNOW that I KNOW a god, no... YOUR god... exists, yet you have no understanding of how that knowledge... that of an omnipotent, supernatural universe-creating, eternal being COULD be suppressed by the feeble human brain. You claim the Bible contains only varied references to the same god, when the stories themselves rule that out, and go on to claim that everyone holds a belief in YOUR god, yet somehow consistently get his character (and gender) completely wrong in almost every case I've examined so far.

    - There are huge variances in the stories of the Bible. The Creation has three in total, the Deluge is different in at least four places and the Passion has no logical coherence as to time of year, events leading up to, or following on from in light of Judaean jurisprudence at that time in history. The book IS inconsistent in so many places that the impression I get is that you've never read it at all. If it weren't for Google you'd fail to find any argument to challenge what I'm saying.

    - You have given me no clue as to WHAT a god is as yet. So, until you outline what you think a god is, making bold claims about any one of them is going to produce unreliable results at best.

    "You clearly have no interest in trying to understand mine."

    - All of the points above would suggest that I know your position all too well. It's nothing new. A presumptive assertion that we all think a god exists, but some of us suppress it, because it would be relatively easy to do that given that your god is supposed to be

    THE MOST POWERFUL ENTITY IN THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE!!

    But, you know, we can 'cos... um... reasons! Isn't that right chum?

    Tell you what Chris. Tell me WHAT a god is and we'll go from there.

    OK? Cheers!

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